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this is a breach of the european data protection act that comes into force in two wks in that to prove you are down loading they would have to spy on your internet activity
If this is the case You Tube should be banned as artists post there own songs on there and with some freeware via google you can download the video and the mp3.
What the government and music industry fail to understand is that data is electronic – you place it at peoples disposal around the world – you cannot control the world like some internet communists.
You have tried DRM on music – it failed, people will not buy it.
You have tried to sell music through various web schemes, some work but not all that successfully.
When will they recogonize data is ELECTRONIC and its the fingertips of the computer user. At some point in the future you have to face that basic fact.
The horse has bolted and now you are trying to shut the door (or some other statement to that affect)….
If this law will be passed, within hours of it being passed, users will be able to download utilities (software) to make their downloads anonimous. So far there is one I know of, which is bullet proof. I don’t download music from the Internet, but if I wanted to do it, I could already do it with total anonimity for absolutely zero pounds.
Its all hot air and will come to nothing, this is what politicians do. Encryption for home users today is military strength so good luck with that.
Dodgy MPs expenses vs Dodgy MP3 expenses.
MPs are desperately trying to get away with their dodgy expense claims, depriving tax payers’ of thousands of pounds. It looks like they’ll get off scot free.
However, if someone made a dodgy claim that I illegally downloaded 3 MP3s, depriving the music industry of a whopping £2.40 (80p a track), I’ll get permanently disconnected from the Internet forever without any legal recourse?
Something seems off somehow.
Labour is in enough trouble already. Do they honestly think that this Draconian scheme will be a vote winner? Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
This is insane and it will not work. Only thing it will do:
1. Get loads of wrong people disconnected
2. Puts the unbelievable pressure to courts who will then have to deal with appeal of all the innocents
3. All the costs, witch are insane, will be put to citizens of UK
4. Will be zero effective because people will not stop sharing and instead they will then use other methods like cracking wifi points, proxys, etc.
This proposal will not solve anything, instead it will create a many new even bigger problems.
I still can’t believe that these are the people who run the country, the people who are selected and responsible of all the UK citizens. And the funny thing is, they seem to get away with this.
I am not UK citizen so i can’t do much but i forwarded this site to every single person i know in UK and asked them do their bit. Big respect to TalkTalk for standing up for your customers.
“What I don’t understand is why people don’t just grow up and stop downloading illegal content. If you want to hear a song or watch a movie buy it, if you can’t afford it then save up and be selective.”
Because – that policy is worse for the music industry. I think every album I’ve bought in the last ten years, was by a band I only ever discovered because I found them on music sharing systems like soulseek. My CD purchases increased about ten times after that, every time I downloaded an album by a band which the program suggested as similar to ones I like, and liked it, then I went and bought their music… And if I didn’t, no money wasted on music I turned out not to like. Before this, my music purchases were infrequent because there was no try before you buy, and I wasn’t going to risk it on stuff I hadn’t heard.
this will definitely not stop piracy. it also 100% will not make people buy CDs. if you have to threaten your customers to buy your product then your business model is woefully inaccurate. their statistics have been debunked and only the supermassive corporations are complaining. if they ban me i am just going to crack all the local WEP and get a whole bunch of innocent people banned from the net. this is what happens when clueless imbeciles are tasked with controlling what they dont understand
Is it to become an offence either civil or crimina,l or both, by implication or by legislation NOT to secure a wifi,?What happened to that statement in Digital Britain recently about the right of every citizen to have access to the Internet? Also what is the position of a FONERO under these proposals- throughout Europe and with BT in the UK, Fon routers provide access to wifi hotspots through ordinary connections being donated to the public airwaves.
While we’ve got almost no opportunities to fight for our rights in my country, I wish you all best of luck in fighting the European governments’ and media companies’ purely draconic measures, which hurt the freedom and produce really harmful effects on global technological progress.
Prove your rights in court and let the rest world see.
Best wishes to you,
Alexander, Russia
What I don’t understand is why people don’t just grow up and stop downloading illegal content. If you want to hear a song or watch a movie buy it, if you can’t afford it then save up and be selective.
Buy a business ADSL line and accuse any monitoring agency with industrial espionage…
The corporation boat needs to adjust their sales. The worlds changing, CD’s are becoming a thing of the past. Mp3′s are expensive for what they are (And cost nothing to reproduce) It’s harder to sign up to itunes than it is to open a website and illegally download the mp3. Programs like spotify are a great start, but there needs to be new purchasing method.
Shut up RichofBeds, you idiot.
The real issue here is over government control over internet access. These new powers maybe open to abuse from political elite disconnecting dissident voices unrelated to filesharing.
We have seen how important internet was in iran over elections. The issue isn’t about whether filesharing is wrong.. cause it is, but how we as a society tackle it. I like Mandelson, but on this he’s got it wrong!
Stephen Fry has an excellent podcast on itunes addressing this very issue; government and industry would do well to listen…the guys a legend and speak ALOT of sense.
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?i=58602088&id=274722189
Easy. Just pick up a day and let’s download copyrighted content, all at the same time, the same day. And if they need more..let’s do ti again.
Let’s see what happens.
This legislation really needs to be dealt with. Not only does it assume you are guilty, but it does so based on the accusation of a 3rd party with little/no regulations on how they gather this information. I think this also constitutes a horrible invasion into privacy, allowing a 3rd party to be able to arbitrarily decide whether we can use the internet. The companies that gather information have been shown again, again and again to be utterly clueless of the issues. And the very fact that this legislation wishes to see piracy drop by 70% just shows the utter idiocy of the people backing it.
Mandelsons off his head! my friend brought a album a few days ago the cd was mis-placed he has already purchesed a licence for the music but they wont give him another cd why should he have to pay twice for the same music that he has already paid for once this is daylight robbery by the music companys he has now had to resot to downloading a copy but hes not a pirate they just wouldnt give him another copy he has already paid for it once why does he have to pay again !!! Another example is wireless networks are not secure anyone can hijack your internet connection its silly and then you get disconnected !
So if we get cut off do we not have to play the line rental tax?
Many needs to wake up and go on an IT course, but I guess this is the norm for most goverment IT ideas and contracts, they all cost a lot of money and end up be useless.
@RichofBeds: If the entertainment industry moved with the times and released a download service that offers music or films for a fair price instead of throwing a hissy fit, we wouldn’t have this problem in the first place. I don’t know if you have been following this, but this venture would cost ISPs £365million per year, that’s £1million per day. How the hell do you expect an ISP to be able to afford that?
Every other industry has to adapt to changing technologies, the entertainment industry is no exception. If they don’t, I have no sympathy for them.
I agree, piracy should be handled but this is not the way to do it. Go after the cause of the problem not its effect. It would make much more sense if the problem websites that host the content knowingly where remove rather than everyone who uses it. Talk Talk don’t have there head in the sand they are one of the few taking there head out of it.
Regarding recorded music… It’s an artificial way of making money. You write/record a song once, and then you get paid for ever. If I design a bridge, will I then get paid every time someone use it? Certainly not. I get paid for the time I spend designing the bridge. If I want more money after that, then I have to work on something else. The music industry need to realise that recorded music is nothing more than a promotional tool for live music events. I have zero sympathy for them.
Instead of fighting these proposals, come up with some of your own that will work. Why should people think they can get music for free? To be a customer, you have to pay for something.
I use Talk Talk for my phone service. Not any more if they persist in this head in the sand stuff.
Mandelson is off his head and needs to go on an IT coarse. While i agree that Internet piracy needs to be tackled this is not the way to do it. I have to say i used to download copyrighted content in the past as i could not afford the prices. I no longer need to do this with legal things like spotify and other ad related streaming evolving. In my opinion there needs to be more services like this for both music and films where artists get paid.
Besides anybody with any knowledge can use a VPN like its.hidden.com or TOR to deter been detected. And as mentioned wireless networks are very hackable too. It is asking a lot for ISP’s to police Mandelson’s crazy policy and is a burden for ISP’s to make sure everybody has a secure wireless network as well.
Its a joke, years ago and still today many people buy CD’s, DVD’s and so on. They copy them for a friend who then copies them for another friend and so on.
Whats the difference between this and downloading them from the internet??
Cutting people from the net is not the answer, as this will only drive much more divide to the people of the UK.. it will no doubt drive the users underground also..
you would be surprised how many ppl use 0123456789 as their wirelss password for the extra channel on router,,their are three of my neighbours who use that exact password.mandelsohn is a muppet or puppet no sure which,cant wait for election to get rid of the un elected
The governments proposals are incredible, I can’t believe that the people running the country have come up with this as their best idea. We need to look at a company from Sweden for the real answer to illegal downloading.
I also downloaded plenty of music, (as well as buying cd’s and vinyl), and as someone has already said, it wasn’t threats that made me stop doing it, it was someone coming up with a viable solution. A service that gives me access to music anytime and for free legally.
That service is Spotify.
This model needs to be looked at for all media, and then the problem of illegal downloading will diminish rapidly I’m sure.
I just think it’s a crazy MAD idea from Mandelson who’s getting advice from wrong people. Cutting people off the net, would force teenagers to learn how to hide their identity. The identity detection prevention softwares are biggest earners from this. NOT the music industry.
I use wireless, and apparently it’s VERY to hack into wireless network, even if it’s encrypted. So I might get punished and hassle for something that I don’t know off. I cannot afford to be offline even for a day as I run my business online. I feed my kids through this business.
I hope Mandelson takes some advise from computer litrate people rather than some fat old idiots who music industry. This is not about music industry, this is about everything else, bills, banks, people jobs….
Why not instead block these sites from being accessed in Britain???
Heck, I’m only 12 and I pirate whatever I need to and when I need to.
I am a customer – treat, us, the customer the way we want to be treated or we shall simply leave your industry to suffer as a result of your refusal to embrace the 21st century technology.
We want music which is affordable, DVD’s not to be so expensive, we want software such as Photoshop to edit photos without it costing the earth. We don’t want lousy DRM or content restriction policies. If a show airs in the US and not in the UK, of course strong fans of that show will pirate it – simply because we want to watch it because we like it. Stop making us pay extortionate amounts for content and perhaps people will stop stealing extortionate amounts of content through the web.
You may be able to stop peer to peer networks, but that simply won’t stop illegal downloads. For as long humanity has a fighting spirit, we shall continue in doing what we are doing. Yours attempts to stop our practices are pointless. We the customers, we the consumers, we the pirates SHALL always WIN no matter what.
There will always be alternatives, such as warez forums and direct downloads, seedboxes, VPN’s so your attempts won’t work.
As jon said, “Make the price fair, and make it available, and people will buy it.”
Lastly, let this be a stark warning to those who refuse to cooperate with the masses, give people better alternatives (such as Spotify for example) or witness the death of your industry.
Remember piracy is demand where supply does not exist as Alice Taylor of Channel 4 said.
Fairwell my fellow pirates – just remember, no matter what your age (even if you are 12), race, gender or anything else, we stand united to fight against this.
‘Home taping is killing music’- the death of music back in the 80s was greatly exaggerated!
The latest statistics show that sales of singles in 2009 is up considerably on last year- so someone is making lotsa dosh!
I have collected music for almost 40 years, buying vinyl singles, albums & CD’s. I have downloaded legally and illegally- mostly to obtain mp3 files already owned on vinyl or cd for use on my i-pod, saves laboriously copying my cd collection or converting vinyl collection to mp3 files in ‘real time’.
I continue to buy cd’s as the quality is much better when played on hi quality hi-fi equipment. I have spent thousands of pounds purchasing music over the years. I have no intention on shelling out more cash for the same product! Recently much of what I spent my hard earned cash on over the years has been given away by record companies for free via promotions with national newspapers- same goes for many movies. The music and film industry are devaluing their own product- sending mixed messages to the public. I do believe that downloads should be free or cheaper as when purchased you do not own a physical copy nor any sleeve notes/art work and is much easier and cheaper for labels to distribute over the web. Spotify is a good service- even my 74 year old father is using it! BUT humans are teritorial they like to collect stuff- I still prefer to own a physical copy and always will.
These new proposals are both ridiculous and flawed. New wireless technology means our computers can pick up, and use wireless signals from not just the next house, but the whole row. As this technology only increases, a WiFi suitable for hijacking will always be in reach.
I have illegally downloaded music for years, usually because I’ve either lost the original disk, or its been damaged beyond repair.
Easy to use services such as we7 are the way forward. charging for music online is obviously not the way forward, as it is failing – resulting in the current mess. But services such as we7 provide an alternative that is just so much easier than illegally downloading.
At school we had a website blocker so we could only access some sites. Did it stop us? Not really. There is always a way round it. Trying to prevent access to online content has historically just made it harder for all of us, yet not actually stopped anyone.
How could we look at the Chinese in 2008 and criticise their web access policy? These new measures are hardly better.
Finally – I use a service called Humyo for backing up all my files online – inclusing my music. I can then stream my own music which I bought to any computer, without adverts. Does all this uploading and downloading of music files, just for backup reasons get caught in the same net as illegally sharing?
What did a VHS cost back in the day??
Lets just say £10.
And how much would it have cost the company for the materials, and the postage & packaging of a single VHS??
Certainly no more than £3 per unit.
That means that I was being charged £7 for the right to own the contents, the film itself. That bit is the profit that they make from the movie. Fair enough. So why, oh why, am I charged all of that again when I want to update to the DVD of the same film?? I already have the rights to own and watch the film, yet I have to buy them again.
My proposed solution would be that there should be a service whereby, if you own a copy of a film on VHS, you can send it off to a center somewhere, like a ‘PO box’ address, and they will send you back a DVD copy of the same film. Naturally you would expect to pay the postage costs, and perhaps a small fee for the service as well, but it would still be a helluva lot fairer than me having to pay £15 pounds at HMV for the DVD of The Great Escape, when I already own several copies on VHS!!
I say that until the movie companies stop ripping consumers off, where’s the problem with them being ripped off??
It’s sad, but “data” is just not worth as much as a vinyl LP or even a CD. If it’s money they’re after, I’ll pay them to wash my car.
DVD manufacturers should embrace filesharing. Instead of trying to protect against it, which they will never achieve, they should release their own movies to filesharing sites that include ad breaks. The ad breaks can be used to bring in revenue meaning that everyone wins.
I don’t download illegal movies or music. It’s a mix of I can’t be bothered and have easy enough access to legal content. However I work in the network industry and see the daily copyright infringement notices and feel it is completely wrong that ISP should be forced to act on these. What ever happened to due process and innocent until proved guilty. This law is plain wrong. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mandelson or labour were getting some kind of back-hander from the BPI.
My wireless router was a very popular brand, netgear. The default instructions did not even mention securing the network.
I used my router for several years and at one point my ISP contacted me for excessive usage. I managed to get into the rotuer setup and 5 people but myself were using my wifi.
God knows what they were downloading but my usage was 130 gb that month, it’s now 9.
This law would sue the innocent. Out of 5 wifi I pick up only 2 are secure.
I have reproduced my vinyl collection using illegal downloading, and also continued to buy new music. I’ve already paid for a licence to own the old stuff and the dreadful record industry, a byword for inhumane treatment of its creatives, is not going to rip me off by charging me outrageous prices for what is only new media for the same content.
The record labels and film companies need to realise people aren’t going to pay the same for a CD or DVD as they will for a digital file that cost virtually nothing to distribute.
It costs virtually the same to distribute an MP3 to 1 person or 1000 people. So why should it cost the same- or at best a couple of quid less.
People also don’t want to wait until a show comes out here, that’s showing in America.
Make the price fair, and make it available, and people will buy it.
I’ve been illegally downloading music online for about ten years.
You know what made me stop? Threats of legal action? Letters? Stupid patronising government campaigns?
Nope: Spotify.
Give us decent and cheap ways to access the content we want, and we’ll work with you.
Start imposing this absurd proccess and we will just hack your connections, steal your bandwidth and get your network disconnected, then move on.
I love to download illegal music without paying for it. If they cut off my net I would just hack my neighbours connection using advanced cat sniffing techniques the use there connection.
They will just drive the problem from illegal downloading to illegal connection hijacking. The problem wont go away just move somewhere else.
I am not a Talktalk customer but I have signed your petition, I am so proud of your campaign and now seriously considering joing talktalk as you really do stick up for your customers and others. You are a really caring company and I totally respect your company for what you are doing, I have placed the url for the petition on facebook and bebo. I have also put posters in my workplace to promote the petition, I really respect your campaign and wish you the very very best of luck.
I agree i think this law is totally unenforceable in a court of law, i speak from personal experiance that i have a couple of neighbours who always seem to be able to gain access to my Wi-Fi no matter what preventative measures i seem to take.
Under this law they would brand me an illegal file sharer if this is what my neighbours intend to use my connection for.
Even so I would like to see them stand in front of a judge and say that someone used this Ip address and want them to take action.
Thats like someone stealing a handbag, running into a house and the police arresting the house owner even though there might be 8 people in the house!
The sooner the music companies and film warehouses stop trying to get more money to fund thier bonus’s the better.
Thanks for the comment “Me”. We certainly advise web users to use WPA2 for encryption, which is widely regarded as being harder to crack than other methods. There’s advice on our secure your wireless page http://www.dontdisconnect.us/secure-your-wireless/, while the Practically Networked site is also worth a look http://practicallynetworked.com/support/wireless_secure.htm
Why don’t you encourage the use of WPA2 instead of using the weakness of the other encryption methods for your campaign.
In my earlioer comment I meant to state that the Government’s proposals require ISPs to bear the costs of protecting a third party’s rights.
Creatives 4NN – International Campaign
i’m Gianfranco responsible for the press office of Scambioetico (Italian movement for the
the defense of net neutrality which is part of the European Coalition Opennet and for the decriminalization of P2P without commercial purpose) and REFF (an international competition for digital artists) and being convinced of the importance of net neutrality i want to submit our initiative that aims to alert all those who believe in the same value:
A few hours after the cancellation by the Telecoms Package amendment 138, REFF and Scambioetico movement start off to “Creatives for Net Neutrality – Creatives 4NN”.
The amendment was the last of the package under discussion in Bruxelles by these days, to protect the privacy and freedom of information and expression.
Recognizing cyberspace as the privileged place of contemporary conflict, “Creatives for NN” is aimed at the digital creative communities and individual users of the network – first of all users
of file sharing, scapegoats of those laws – to create music, video , banners, plotting, poetry and comic strip on one or more themes to choose from:
- Telecoms Package
- Net Neutrality
- Mere Conduit
- Amendment 138 of the Telecoms Package
- Legalization of P2P without commercial purpose
The works received will be used to launch an international campaign which puts to the attention of European citizens and the public the urgency of action on these issues, promoting higher undersanding and critical awareness
Creatives 4NN is an initiative created by Scambioetico movement with the support and collaboration of REFF.
For all information on participation and content at this link:
http://romaeuropa.org/REFF/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41%
3Acreativesnetneutrality% 3Acreatenetneutrality & catid = 13 & Itemid
= 15 & lang = en
REFF Team
http://www.romaeuropa.org
http://www.scambioetico.org
I hope that this initiative will have the support of Talk Talk and all those who care about net neutrality.
I have some comments and questions. The Government’s proposals require them to bear the costs of protecting a third party’s rights, namely the rights of the copyright holder. In a context where illegal filesharers can avoid detection by encrypting traffic, or by hijacking someone else’s IP address or Wi-Fi network imagine the nighmare involved in policing the proposals. Since when was it Government policy to pass the costs of policing policy to private enterprises and doesn’t that of itself beget questions around personal data security and the right to privacy?
How does the Government square the view of Broadband access as a utilitarian right (and so the ability to use vital commercial services, such as shopping and banking) being completely disrupted if internet users are disconnected? Where does this sit with the Digital Britain ‘Broadband for all’ maifesto?
Much of the problem with illegal sharing of copyrighted material has been caused by rightsholders, and the music industry in particular, being far too slow in getting their act together and making popular legal alternatives available.
The Government’s proposed moves are cretinous at best and sinister at worst.
The onus should firstly be on Rights Holders to get their act together and foster greater access to the latest content (including new movie releases) via online methods. Sadly to date they’ve always been rather slow to recognise this and consumers have gravitated towards illegal solutions as an alternative. The industry must supply content to consumers in the way they want, at a fair price and keep up with technology rather than trying to fight against it.
Having said that I do believe some form of warning and potential service restriction might have scope (NOT disconnection!) but how about we just try the letter warning process first for a full year before trying to build a skyscraper without any foundation. Disconnection is a silly idea.
While I agree that downloading is illegal, I think that we should be able to do what we want to. We already live in what feels like a nanny state, constantly being told what we can do and can’t do. This will be one more thing to add to the list.
If for one second I thought it would stop illegal downloads I’d be the first to say yes, do it, but unfortunately it won’t. All it will do is allow real criminals to get away with it, and put innocent people in jeopardy.
I hope everyone signs your petition and says NO to the government while we have a chance.